Interview with Mr. Seyyed Mostafa Hashemi Taba,

Vice President of the Islamic Republic of Iran,

President of the Physical Education Organization,

President National Olympic Committee,

Member of the I.O.C.

By GM Valery Salov

VS: Mr. Hashemi Taba, thank you very much for acceding to our request to have this interview with you. It’s a great honor for FIDE and for the whole chess community in general to stage the World Chess Championship Final in Tehran. Thank you very much on behalf of all the chess players for this opportunity, for offering your kind hospitality to us.

HT: Thank you very much also. I would like to express our gratitude to FIDE and its President, Mr. Kirsan Ilyumzhinov for allowing us to host this important event in Iran. I think that this match may become a very important step in promotion of chess in our country. The game of chess had originated from this area of the world in ancient times, throughout history it has enjoyed great popularity in our country. I believe that close cooperation between the Physical Culture Organization of Iran, its Chess Federation and FIDE can bring very good results in the future.

VS: Thank you. At the same time, it’s well known that after the Islamic Revolution there was a period when chess was under prohibition here in Iran, it was not looked upon as an acceptable and appropriate activity? Then the attitude of the Iranian Government had changed, how did it happen?

HT: Yes, at some moment the idea prevailed that chess was a kind of gambling and it was prohibited. You must know that Islam condemns gambling; only because of this chess was not supported in Iran. Later Imam Khomeini changed this prevailing opinion of the game, having admitted its high educational and intellectual values. It’s a game that teaches people to think, to reason, enhances their intelligence. Now chess is being played in all areas of Iran, enjoys support of the State. The Chess Federation of Iran occupies one of the best buildings among all the sportive federations; all over the country we have constructed chess homes…

VS: Chess clubs?

HT: Yes, we call them chess homes. This support is bringing already due results: in recent years our juniors had won two gold medals in the World Championships. In the boys’ under 10 category and the girls’ under 12.

VS: You have very talented youngsters; it’s normal for the country with such deep cultural traditions. But also a number of mature, strong players, two of them have participated in this World Championship: E. Ghaemmaghami and A. Bagheri.

HT: I believe that everyone should be given a chance to dedicate all his efforts to his main job; only this attitude brings the best results. The chess players as well should have professional approach in order to compete successfully at the top level.

VS: I’m sure that chess is guaranteed a brilliant future here provided there is a will of the Government to support it.

HT: Are you satisfied by the arrangements here?

VS: Yes, it’s done at a very high level and I think that the playing venue, the stage and the playing hall, are of the best kind that I have ever seen arranged for the World Championship matches. It’s my impression that the Iranian people are extremely talented for all sorts of decorative arts.

HT: It is true. Is it your first trip to Iran?

VS: Yes, it is.

HT: Then you should pay visit to Esfahan or Tabriz to enjoy the best samples of the Iranian Art. There are plenty of beautiful buildings, magnificent examples of fine arts like carpets, embroideries, paintings and so on.

VS: Thank you, I’ve heard a lot about Esfahan, I’ll take the first opportunity to visit it. But, please, let’s come back to this tournament. Indeed, chess is not a gambling; chess is a fair sport, a sport that stimulates intellectual development…

HT: Just like puzzle solving or mathematics. Gambling in general is never too complicated, to gamble one needs just a few coins or cards. Chess is different, it is thinking, it is not gambling and this is why it’s not prohibited in Iran.

VS: And there is also another aspect to it: chess is a very democratic sport, practicing it doesn’t require big investment or special facilities. This world championship format is also very democratic: the two finalists are here because they proved to be the best by the virtue of their chess prowess; they passed through a very tough qualification tournament with no privileges to anyone. The same is true in respect to Islam, which is a very democratic religion: all the believers are equal, are brothers and there exists only one God above them.

HT: There is a statement of Prophet Mohammad that says: “Everything in Islam is based on wisdom and everything wise belongs to Islam”. It’s always necessary to have an argument about the matters, to be clear about them. Mistakes in argumentation lead to wrong decisions. At the same time all the religions have some principles, all decisions should adapt to some principles and there should be no excess or abuse of anything. If you use something with good aims in mind, then Islam never prohibits it. For example, if you have a knife, is it good or bad in itself? Everything depends on how are you going to use it. If one uses chess for gambling, it is prohibited; if it is used for thinking, it’s OK. If you abuse people to enrich yourself, if you cheat, if you lie, Islam doesn’t tolerate it. Take another example: it is not allowed by Islam to drink alcohol, it is strongly forbidden. But if you are ill and your doctor prescribes it to you, then not only it is allowed, it is obligatory to take it. We must be very flexible about things; everything must have its own measure.

VS: This prohibition of alcohol is definitely one of the wisest aspects of Islam. I think that one of the serious problems of Western civilisation is that it is an alcoholised civilisation.

HT: You see, in every country, in every culture there are some ‘musts’ and ‘should nots’. For instance, in every society exists certain dress code, which varies in different situations. It’s very important that restrictions are based upon wisdom and good argument.

VS: There always must be some foundation, it must be explained - why it is allowed or not, it should be based on argument rather than blind obedience.

HT: Exactly. Now there is no problem about chess, but the prohibition of alcohol is in force and we think it should be maintained, because it’s not only about religion, it’s also about behaviour, its social costs and consequences and so on. If people live and work normally, in harmony with nature, why should they use alcohol or other drugs to change their mind and behaviour?

VS: Of course, it will only serve to cloud one’s judgement, nothing else. In Russia it was a huge problem for the last century and a half; unfortunately, this alcoholised culture was introduced to Russia from outside and artificially cultivated with very negative effects for the country and its population.

HT: Yes.

VS: Chess world also had its share of problems. For the past few years it was used as a weapon in political gambling, still now it is being used by some people as means of putting political pressure on certain countries.

HT: Solve the problem!

VS: Hopefully, altogether we’ll be able to resolve these problems. You see, even before this Championship some people from the countries like Israel and United States protested against holding the Finals of the World Championship here in Tehran. I think that it’s just a very negative attitude from these countries: instead of seeking an open dialogue, frank discussion they try to impose their will in a dictatorial manner.

HT: You know there is no argument from United States about Iran. USA cut the relations with our country in a unilateral way; it was they, not us. And now they put down three conditions necessary to normalise our relationship. They say we should come to negotiate these three points.

VS: What are these conditions?

HT: First, they say that we are terrorists and that we should restrain our people to keep them from committing ‘terrorist acts’ abroad. But we are not terrorists. United States are cheating a lot of people all over the world; they rob the other countries. They are terrorists, not us. The second one is that we should obey the peace procedure in the Middle East, it means between Israel and Palestine…

VS: But actually you obey it: Tehran is going to organise an International Conference on Palestine next spring?

HT: Yes, we protect the Palestinians and defend their rights. We say that Palestine belongs to all the peoples: it belongs to Jews; it belongs to Muslims, to Christians. They should work together, why should they exile people from Palestine? We want to protect the rights of the poor people, of deprived people.

VS: It’s normal.

HT: And the third one: they say you should not have atomic bomb and should curtail all nuclear programs. All three points are not realistic. If we talk about disarmament, no one should possess nuclear weapons in the whole area. And Israel does have it. We have signed the protocol about atomic activities; we have no abilities for creating atomic weapons, while Israel possesses important atomic arsenals. But they say - you should obey these three conditions and then come to negotiations and undersign them. They don’t make use of judgement, of argument, of logical thinking - they just want to push us.

VS: But of course, USA is a very close ally of Israel.

HT: They are not only very close allies: Zionism is very strong in the United States; it occupies a dominating position in USA, the mass media is under their control.

VS: A significant sector of political, financial and economical elite of the United States is Zionist: it is a well-known fact.

HT: The American Foreign Policy is entirely in their hands, you must know it. We are not against the Jews; we are against the Zionists, because it is racism. Racism is prohibited in the whole World: by the United Nations Declaration, by the Olympic Charter, everywhere.

VS: But unfortunately, Iran is one of the very few countries that still can openly object to it, the others are so controlled and so intimidated…

HT: Yes, that was their idea.

VS: One gets impression that USA doesn’t seek to resolve Palestinian problem but rather tries to convert the whole Planet into one big Palestine. Unfortunately, we have no place to flee to from this Planet; we have to settle it here somehow.

HT: All these peoples could peacefully live together; they could have elections and democratically choose their government. For instance, in Lebanon there are Christians, Shiite Muslims and Sunni Muslims and they all work together. Of course, there was a war in Lebanon but it was not really between the people. There were some destructive forces guided by foreign countries. You see, we have many Christians and Jews in Iran; they live peacefully without any problem.

VS: Similar situation existed in the Soviet Union; before CIA started its subversive undermining activities there were hardly any national frictions. Still now, USA dedicates about $4 billion every year to foment all sorts of nationalistic separatist movements in order to dismember Russia. And not only there, it goes on all over the world.

HT: But that’s the problem with the USA and its satellite countries: they want to govern the World. They pursue the Globalisation program in accordance with their own interests and ideas.

VS: Certainly they do, and they never say what’s their final objective: unless one refers to the Old Testament for the answers.

HT: The dictators who want to conquer the World never have reasons; they just want to do it. This is the principle for them: they want to rule. This is the problem.

VS: What are the chances of the International Conference on Palestine to unite the Muslim Nations for bringing a real support to the cause of Palestinians, to ensure a fair peace agreement?

HT: Of course, everybody wants the unity, but there are always many problems, there are people who depend on other countries, who benefit from conflicts, have their own interests. We think that we should go in this direction to achieve unity and peace. Eventually peoples should work together, everyone should know this. No conquering other peoples, no subjugating other countries with their cultures. The idea that there should be some universal ideology imposed on all peoples of the World is very dangerous and destructive. Peoples create their own cultures, grow, develop and change with them. So we should be tolerant with the others, live and work together.

VS: I completely agree with you and I hope that chess may become instrumental in uniting peoples, not separating them.

HT: The same way as other sports, like the Olympic Movement in general. We all can successfully cooperate and peacefully live together.

VS: At the same time there exist some extremist movements, often financed by certain circles in the West that taint and spoil the best of efforts in this direction. What do you think about it?

HT: In every idea, in every movement there are extremities. The majority is always in the centre, but extremists always exist. Everywhere. Even in Hindu religion, in India, known for its peacefulness and equilibrium, some Hindus are very extreme: they rush to a Mosque, they ruin it and then they want to reconstruct a Hindu Temple on its place.

VS: You mean the Ram Temple in Ayodhya? [On December 6, 1992 the Babri Masjid, a mosque that was erected in XVI century on the supposed birthplace of Ram, was demolished by the Kar sevaks. Recently Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh chief KC Sudarshan claimed the Masjid was brought down by an explosion of a bomb of unknown origin].

HT: Yes, exactly. The same happens in other countries, in other religions. There are extremists among the Jews: they are Zionists. There are extremists among Christians and Muslims, but the majority is always moderate. You know, there are certain radical groups in Afghanistan: they are Muslims, but they are our enemies because they are extremists. Radicalism exists in every country and every culture. This is why the role of the leaders is so important, they must be wise to enable the majority, the moderate people, to live and work in peace.